AI agents kill the game

[acm_no1]

Agents are very powerful if you know how to use them, dignitaries easily boost your income by a huge amount in early game and they can convert culture pretty fast, reducing chance of rebellion

spies are very good at scouting, poisoning armies

champions are pretty much the most powerful agent, they can completely devastate a settlement in 1 turn, train your armies into extremely elite units

in Legendary they help me so much, I always recruit dignitaries first and let champions be full slots all the time

and the AI? well they are pretty annoying but it's fine, nothing should be changed

dont blame CA for something like this, it makes you look even more noob (sorry, harsh but true)

[karamazovmm]

Agents are very powerful if you know how to use them, dignitaries easily boost your income by a huge amount in early game and they can convert culture pretty fast, reducing chance of rebellion

spies are very good at scouting, poisoning armies

champions are pretty much the most powerful agent, they can completely devastate a settlement in 1 turn, train your armies into extremely elite units

in Legendary they help me so much, I always recruit dignitaries first and let champions be full slots all the time

and the AI? well they are pretty annoying but it's fine, nothing should be changed

dont blame CA for something like this, it makes you look even more noob (sorry, harsh but true)

pretty much true

use agents to fight against agents, use their abilities and don't expect that whilst being outnumbered by enemy agents in the east nothing will happen to you, use strategy and it becomes just a mere nuisance

[Sarissofoi]

I actually miss the old Rome I agents.
You know spies for gathering information mostly and assasins for killing and sabotage.
Having net of spies was pretty good thing. But now you get very limited number of agents and you can use any type for killing and sabotage.
Yeah and I know how to use it. Still AI cans warm you if you fight against few nations and they can too easly kill or wound generals.

[Slaists]

who thinks AI agents are way to overpowered?i started a new campaign after seeing some vids on .☠. oOIYvYIOo his channel.i think diplomacy is like it shoud be now,your allies are helping like the shoud,its just playable you think(exept for arcade battles,not enough building slots,squalor for all you build) and than your enemys start bringing in agent after agent,and oh boy they can ruine your lands,they killed all my generals,most of my agents,all my hellenic regions have been converted to nomadic or eastern,all regions have 60/80 negative public order.even with 3 temples that give hellenic convercion. realy stupid if you ask me,and trying to kill them is no option,all actions against them have around 20% chance even with a 5 star agent.

Hmm, I just see the AI agents as a speed bump. I counter their agents with my agents (in the East, mind you, against the swarm of Seleucid satrapies). Just bring ALL your agents where the action is and level them up in coercion/manipulation. Then, target the AI agents (check which one you have the best chances with). If your agents confuses the target rather than outright converting, move on to the next target in that turn (the confused target cannot hurt you for one turn). Eventually you'll succeed in converting some. The next turn: throw the AI's agents right back at the AI (converting). It gets fun when you have 20/3 champions

[Mhantra]

It took me a while to figure out that running your agents is a whole mini game in and of itself. And it is mandatory. You cannot ignore this or you will pay dearly.

Oh, and converting them to join your cause is good. Real good. It allows you to have more than your allotment of agents. And they remove the AI's agents.

[Used2BRoz]

Shouldn't we be saying its good to see the AI players actually using a game feature effectively against the human player ?

Not to say that the feature works very well - agents gain too much experience and too many abilities too quickly.
At the very least they shouldn't gain from failures, only successful actions.

The best advice I can give is to stack your agents with your armies for a few turns to passively gain experience before letting them lose on the enemy.
After that attack settlements and armies before going after enemy agents.

Overall though the add something to the game.

[Langer Kerl]

Anyone now an good anti agent methods? Does have a spy etc embedded in your army do anything to protect your general. Does having a high star general making it harder to take out? Does having you spy set up a network in the province effect the outcome of an attack? If so is it effectively immediately or the next turn? What roll does cunning play in this?

I dont have detailed answers for you, but some general tips: There are defensive mechanisms for each type of agent action: Every agent can pull of authority, zeal and cunning attacks and some personalities or cities are more vulnerable to one than the other. It is possible to defend against certain kinds of attack or all kinds at once: For example, Temple of Ares adds +defence to Zeal attacks, and Temple of Zeus upps defense against all enemy attacks. The *inspire military zeal* ability of champions upps the defense of a region as well, at least against one kind, possibly against all. The spy ability gives you a greater chance of spotting hidden agents, but I cannot tell if they also increase the chance of actually stopping them. Finally, you can assign certain followers to generals or agents that decrease their chance of getting killed if you are lucky enough to have them.

If you simply get swarmed with agents at a certain place - more than you can kill each turn with your own agents - I would simply advise you to up the local agent defenses with the according buildings (some types of religious buildings and some kinds of water supply buildings), use at least one champions´ and one spies´ (I think they stack) area-of-effect ability there and then watch the enemy agents getting killed or wounded trying to sabotage your city. Use the rest of your agents for assassinations as you did before and train them in the according skills while you train your defensive agents in their according skills (note: agents not doing anything besides using their area-of-effect ability also gain experience and level up, just not quite as fast).


If you are campaigning in foreign territory and keep getting sabotaged... well, good look. I tried bringing agents with my army to use their a.o.e. ability for protection but since each agents ability works differently in enemy territory I have no idea if this actually works.

[Slaists]

I dont have detailed answers for you, but some general tips: There are defensive mechanisms for each type of agent action: Every agent can pull of authority, zeal and cunning attacks and some personalities or cities are more vulnerable to one than the other. It is possible to defend against certain kinds of attack or all kinds at once: For example, Temple of Ares adds +defence to Zeal attacks, and Temple of Zeus upps defense against all enemy attacks. The *inspire military zeal* ability of Champions upps the defense of a region as well, at least against one kind, possibly against all. The spy ability gives you a greater chance of spotting hidden agents, but I cannot tell if they also increase the chance of actually stopping them. Finally, you can assign certain followers to generals or agents that decrease their chance of getting killed if you are lucky enough to have them.

If you simply get swarmed with agents at a certain place - more than you can kill each turn with your own agents - I would simply advise you to up the local agent defenses with the according buildings (some types of religious buildings some kinds of water supply buildings), put use at least one champions´ and one spies´ (I think they stack) area-of-effect ability there and then watch the enemy agents getting killed or wounded trying to sabotage your city. Use the rest of your agents for assassinations as you did before and train them in the according skills while you train your defensive agents in their according skills (note: agents not doing anything besides using their area-of-effect ability also gain experience and level up, just not quite as fast).


If you are campaigning in foreign territory and keep getting sabotaged... well, good look. I tried bringing agents with my army to use their a.o.e. ability for protection but since each agents ability works differently in enemy territory I have no idea if this actually works.

Killing AI agents does not work as well as converting them. With killing you have a low chance to kill; a medium-low chance to wound. With converting you have a low-medium-low chance to convert and a medium-high chance to "confuse". If you confuse, the target cannot harm you the next turn. If you luck out and convert; the next turn you have 2 agents rather than 1 to throw at the AI. And you can go considerably higher than your own agent limit this way. At some points I have had 20/3 agents in all categories. No AI stands a chance against that... 100% conversion guaranteed just by the law of large numbers.

[Langer Kerl]

Killing AI agents does not work as well as converting them. With killing you have a low chance to kill; a medium-low chance to wound. With converting you have a low-medium-low chance to convert and a medium-high chance to "confuse". If you confuse, the target cannot harm you the next turn. If you luck out and convert; the next turn you have 2 agents rather than 1 to throw at the AI. And you can go considerably higher than your own agent limit this way. At some points I have had 20/3 agents in all categories. No AI stands a chance against that... 100% conversion guaranteed just by the law of large numbers.

That is also pretty sound, listen to this advice! I was once on the recieving end of strategy this for some time and I really suffered. The snowball effect starts to kick in and all the rookie agents you have to re-recruit barely stand a chance against the enemy agents and tend to get converted as well!

Maybe combine this with what I said earlier for maximum efficiency.

[fws2468]

Besides using agents against other agents, it seems that generals with high cunning levels are less vulnerable. I often prioritize giving them cunning traits even when the enemy morale penalty or extra campaign movement seem too good to delay getting. Some religious buildings give agents an immediate promotion upon recruitment, so use them when you can. Agents also gradually gain experience by "deploying" in a fixed position or being attached to an army for prolonged periods. Once they gain enough experience this way, they may have a better chance to try targeting other enemy agents.

[Downtown1]

they aren't useless. I love their new abilities, especially the deployable ones. they just need some balancing atm. champions are special even among the agents. their ability to disrupt and kill is the best atm. use them on AI cities and watch it bleed money.

Use it on AI cities and watch them bleed money, why would I bother? AI already doesn't have enough money, or else they'd tech up and build more elite units instead of spamming levies.

Yes who ever said they are useless doesn't know what they are talking about. They are annoying, they do slow down the turn time with that faction you are at war with but they do serve a purpose and I have seen the AI use them effectively against me. They have taken out my general which you therefore lose that unit type or put me in a spot where I could not back out of a fight that I was completely outnumbered, all in the same turn.

Yeah, way to even read my post.. I said they are annoying to the player in the first sentence. But I should've expected since you don't even bother to attribute the original post by claiming "whoever".

Agents: Never go to war without em.

I even said "all they are good for is to support armies".

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Agents are very powerful if you know how to use them, dignitaries easily boost your income by a huge amount in early game and they can convert culture pretty fast, reducing chance of rebellion

I assume you are talking about the dignitary passive in friendly territory. How many turns does that % in tax income increase take to pay off the $1000+ investment into the dignitary?

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Anyway people, don't get me wrong, I use agents, I max them out all the time and even go overboard by 1 with manipulating. Perhaps it's not the agents that are "useless" but the rebel mechanic, since I could never get them to take any enemy city on my behalf.

[The Noble Duke Of York]

This might have been suggested already but here are two tips for dealing with enemy agents that also might help alongside the ones already mentioned.

Each general has a household and you don't have to wait for the AI to assign a member each turn. Go into "army details" this is the panel where you upgrade your general's traits and your armies traits. Right in the center should be the household menu. I've seen at least one character in each army I've used whose skill is detecting and killing enemy agents. Get that guy and assign him to your army. I always look for that guy and grab him right away! Your army's life will be so much more easier if you do this.

For towns, especially province capitals, assign one of your spies to it, plant them just outside, and on the center panel there should be something to select that allows them to establish a spy network. USE this. Vital. Also champions can do the same but apparently they boost the morale of the population by telling glorious tales to boost patriotism.

Do not give up. Something like this is fun as hell and you should love it and be thanking CA for making this hard, for making YOU a mighty game warrior

[acm_no1]

Use it on AI cities and watch them bleed money, why would I bother? AI already doesn't have enough money, or else they'd tech up and build more elite units instead of spamming levies.


Yeah, way to even read my post.. I said they are annoying to the player in the first sentence. But I should've expected since you don't even bother to attribute the original post by claiming "whoever".


I even said "all they are good for is to support armies".

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I assume you are talking about the dignitary passive in friendly territory. How many turns does that % in tax income increase take to pay off the $1000+ investment into the dignitary?

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Anyway people, don't get me wrong, I use agents, I max them out all the time and even go overboard by 1 with manipulating. Perhaps it's not the agents that are "useless" but the rebel mechanic, since I could never get them to take any enemy city on my behalf.

4 turns, sometimes 3 sir =\, and that's in early game,

in late game they can produce more than that, not too useful in late but quite helpful in early and mid game where money is the biggest problem.

p/s: vanilla, i dont use mods, just so you know

[tungri_centurio]

Thanks for the tips all.i need to manage them a lot better i guess.

[Downtown1]

4 turns, sometimes 3 sir =\, and that's in early game,

in late game they can produce more than that, not too useful in late but quite helpful in early and mid game where money is the biggest problem.

p/s: vanilla, i dont use mods, just so you know

Sounds awesome, do the increased tax rates stack or do you need to put them into different provinces?

[Dunadd]

There are too few agents but they are too overpowered - or else the AI gets given more agents that players do too maybe - not sure. The agent actions that affect entire armies and settlements are too powerful. It was better balanced in Rome 1 where each side could use spies, assassins or diplomats for specific purposes - though giving judges/diplomats in Rome II authority to improve public order and change culture ability is nice.

[Toho]

all 3 agents seem to have 6 choices each but all have the same result if successful.

[BSGfan]

YeAgents: Never go to war without em.

Anyone now an good anti agent methods? Does have a spy etc embedded in your army do anything to protect your general. Does having a high star general making it harder to take out? Does having you spy set up a network in the province effect the outcome of an attack? If so is it effectively immediately or the next turn? What roll does cunning play in this?

depending on what agent you have embedded and how you are skilling them up
a spy let you show information about enemy stacks and give some protection against agents
a veteran protects your general and give combat bonus to your units and a diplomat reduces the up keep cost significant , my experince
setting up networks in your own regions seems to work similair , spies give more intell about enemy stacks or make enemy agents visible , veterans protect against enemy agents actions and diplomats give a tax and culture bonus but agzents tend to raise up slower when not embedded in a army

I usually embed a new agent in a fleet or army that is in garrison or building for a 5pr 6 turns till they got some skill o also t(ry to specialize my agents in certain skills , you need to take note which agent is in training and what they are training for
that is my experince with agents any way
best agent i ever had was a rank 8 veteran with a 70 % chance of assasinting enemy characters and a 50 % chance of wounding attacking enemy agents he died of natural causes at the tender age of 72

[Langer Kerl]

I just re-read some tooltips about agent deployment:

Spies protect against cunning attacks.
Champions protect against zeal attacks.
Diplomats protect against Authority attacks.


Every agent can do every kind of attack (thats why there are always three options to choose from) and he may be better at doing one kind of attack than he is doing the other kind, as well as more vulnerable to one kind and less to the other. For maximum protection you need to deploy at least one agent of each kind.

[acm_no1]

Sounds awesome, do the increased tax rates stack or do you need to put them into different provinces?

they dont stack, you have to put them into different provinces