who else thinks Shogin total war was a wierd place to start

[Armatus]

M2 is similar to Rome. As far as I know, their sounds are pretty indentical.

No STW & MTW have the same death and dying sounds, similar others as well. RTW had updated sounds.

What make R:TW famous is the battle system, not the soundtrack or details.

Battle system? You mean the one from STW & MTW? The reality is that when RTW came out it was EPIC FAIL on the battle system because as you will note even a fully patched version of RTW (Not BI) has significant problems with the pathfinding with unit grouping maneuvers. This wasn't an issue in with the previous games. What made RTW standout and get sales was the 3D units and scale. It was really self marketing, but I'm sure "Time commanders" and the History channel's "Decisive Battles" had a lot to do with it. Still a good game though.

[Portuguese Rebel]

The only thing is that the battlefield modeling of Shogun can never be compared with Rome.

Sure, go right ahead and compare games several years apart that run in completely different hardware and don't even let the fact that RTW builds upon STW to be what it was. Hmmm actually given that the original unpatched RTW was like an arcade game i spent much more time playing STW than RTW. In fact, i was still playing STW sometimes instead of Rome. Anyway MTW2 >>> RTW.

[Zippy]

I think they should make a sequel to shogun, but don't make it like rtw, or, god forbid, m2.

[joemo]

ye it is weird place to start but you gotta start somewhere

[Hellmut34]

Hmm no i didn't see it as weird.

The game was a landmark for us all. I can remember my best friend and i losing many Saturdays to that game. We would share all decisions etc.........it was fantastic and if they ever re-released it today with a modernised engine + graphics, then i would pre-order for sure.

Ahh fond memories

[LennStar]

no ^^

[Katene]

Well, misunderstanding. What I call battle modeling is the engine, which mean the battle engine.

No STW & MTW have the same death and dying sounds, similar others as well. RTW had updated sounds.

M2TW and RTW have almost the same sound, Shogun have pretty differs sound (and not as industrial as those later TW).

Battle system? You mean the one from STW & MTW? The reality is that when RTW came out it was EPIC FAIL on the battle system because as you will note even a fully patched version of RTW (Not BI) has significant problems with the pathfinding with unit grouping maneuvers. This wasn't an issue in with the previous games. What made RTW standout and get sales was the 3D units and scale. It was really self marketing, but I'm sure "Time commanders" and the History channel's "Decisive Battles" had a lot to do with it. Still a good game though.

Shogun have much more problems in manoever and grouping. RTW have some minor problems (and at least not annoying as Shogun). And what I am talking about is the Battle Modeling. What make RTW the best strategy is the great battle modeling, not the details nor the sounds. RTW and M2TW are the best ancient history battle modeling games.

[Armatus]

Well, misunderstanding. What I call battle modeling is the engine, which mean the battle engine.


M2TW and RTW have almost the same sound, Shogun have pretty differs sound (and not as industrial as those later TW).


Shogun have much more problems in manoever and grouping. RTW have some minor problems (and at least not annoying as Shogun). And what I am talking about is the Battle Modeling. What make RTW the best strategy is the great battle modeling, not the details nor the sounds. RTW and M2TW are the best ancient history battle modeling games.

Oh battle modeling I see. Well in any case I challenge you to show were Shogun fails vs Rome in real time battle formations and multiple group movements. It doesn't. Yet If you group your cavalry, infantry and archers all separate in Rome and click alt plus left/right click (forget now) your cavalry set on the flanks will crisscross your main infantry force and in some case your whole formation will move in a different direction. In Shogun as with Medieval since it is the same engine they do not do this with alt +mouse click, they move in perfect formation from start to finish and arrange themselves exactly where you set your way point and facing the proper direction. Only with the release of BI 1.6 did the pathfinding for way points brokenness get fixed. There is no patch that exists to my knowledge that corrects the problem in Rome only Barbarian Invasion.

[segwen12]

Wow, you make this all sound interesting, if only it were still sold.

but they had to blast it with other titles.

[Katene]

Oh battle modeling I see. Well in any case I challenge you to show were Shogun fails vs Rome in real time battle formations and multiple group movements. It doesn't. Yet If you group your cavalry, infantry and archers all separate in Rome and click alt plus left/right click (forget now) your cavalry set on the flanks will crisscross your main infantry force and in some case your whole formation will move in a different direction. In Shogun as with Medieval since it is the same engine they do not do this with alt +mouse click, they move in perfect formation from start to finish and arrange themselves exactly where you set your way point and facing the proper direction. Only with the release of BI 1.6 did the pathfinding for way points brokenness get fixed. There is no patch that exists to my knowledge that corrects the problem in Rome only Barbarian Invasion.

Well, you have not tried tactics in Rome, haven't you? Try to, for example, charge the cavalry/elephants/chariots into a formation and see what's the different...

[Armatus]

Well, you have not tried tactics in Rome, haven't you? Try to, for example, charge the cavalry/elephants/chariots into a formation and see what's the different...

How would you come to the conclusion after everything that I've posted that I have not tried tactics? I've been playing multiplayer since MTW. This was a major issue for that side of the community which generated a separate petition to CA regarding the real time battles that included over 400 members with gamespyids. But as far as this:

for example, charge the cavalry/elephants/chariots into a formation and see what's the different...

Are you referring to stats? Because that has nothing to do with tactics.

Wow, you make this all sound interesting, if only it were still sold.

you can still buy it the Gold Edition I'm for certain, otherwise you can probably find the older versions through ebay or places like that.

[Hospitallers Kane]

lol
a sparked a debate

[Thermal]

ive not seen a poll so close before! i guess it is a weird place 2 start, but good 4 the era, never really bothered me

[Armatus]

how could this be? I wonder how many who checked "yes" never played Shogun when it came out.

[Katene]

Are you referring to stats? Because that has nothing to do with tactics.

Very very surprised that you think, the stats have nothing to do with tactics! (?)

[Armatus]

Very very surprised that you think, the stats have nothing to do with tactics! (?)

They do, but that was not necessarily the factor which made the game unplayable for some. If you consider adverse effect poor pathfinding/AI has on a real time battle. In other words if you order your troops to do something like archers to fire and they instead retreat or your troops to move towards your opponent who is defending and instead they expose their flank it doesn't matter what stats the units have because you've just been screwed.

However we are getting somewhat off topic about Rome.

[Katene]

They do, but that was not necessarily the factor which made the game unplayable for some. If you consider adverse effect poor pathfinding/AI has on a real time battle. In other words if you order your troops to do something like archers to fire and they instead retreat or your troops to move towards your opponent who is defending and instead they expose their flank it doesn't matter what stats the units have because you've just been screwed.

However we are getting somewhat off topic about Rome.

I don't remember the details, but after my memory, Shogun's control is really annoying. Usually you maneuver and then it... automatically move somewhere unknown (and unstoptable by backspace)

And to tell the truth, the archers will retreat in Shogun too and they... hardly can do that. In most cases they are caught easily.

After my memory too, I have almost never meet annoying maneuver problems like of Shogun in Rome.

[Armatus]

I don't remember the details, but after my memory, Shogun's control is really annoying. Usually you maneuver and then it... automatically move somewhere unknown (and unstoptable by backspace)

And to tell the truth, the archers will retreat in Shogun too and they... hardly can do that. In most cases they are caught easily.

After my memory too, I have almost never meet annoying maneuver problems like of Shogun in Rome.

Well what can I say mate? You would be my first encounter with someone stating these things in the forums that I've noticed in all my time. Sorry to here this for you, but I never had any problems when I played Shogun (outside of minor qirks) specifically as relates to what I said.

But I am truly astonished that you have never seen this in Rome, because if I wanted to spent a hour or two digging through TWC and the ORG I could produce many topics about it.

Secondly, since I find it so hard to believe, rather than continue off topic about Rome would you care to PM me with your game version details? We could also start a new thread about which game has more tactical bugs as I would be willing to capture some video of it happening just to be sure that I'm not going senile in my "old age" turning 35 Tuesday

[Garnier]

Shogun is a good sensible place to start for the total war series, because their "pattern" so far has been to make a new engine and a game for it, then release a medieval game on the same engine, but with it improved. I can't know of course, but I'd not be surprised if medieval 3 came after empire.

The point (I think) in making shogun, was to get an engine going and release it, and then be able to improve it and finalise it into MTW1.

[Armatus]

Thinking about what you said Garnier, I think I remember a dev video diary in which one of CA said M1 was the game they were always wanting to make (this was when M1 was coming out)